HAMMOND: Good Morning Tim Tate & Chris Bray

TATE: -" Good morning indeed . I think the first thing I would like to say is that and I'm not sure that Chris would agree with this is that I support a good deal of what Chris Bray and a good deal of what Chris Bray stands for. I think that he has misunderstood perhaps deliberately or perhaps myopically the aim of the programme and the particular focus of the programme and I think we should stress.

..HAMMOND: "Your'e supporting Chris Bray?

TATE: "In a sense..

"HAMMOND " Which didn't come through the programme at all last night"

TATE: "Give me a chance. At the outset you said the Cook Report was about Occultism - it wasn't it was about Satanism and I must stress that there is a complete difference.

BRAY: "You would know all about this being an expert"?

TATE: "I don't think it's going to get anywhere by being sarcastic"

TATE: "It was about Satanism not Occultism in general

"HAMMOND: " Chris has said categorically that Child Sexual Abuse which is something you covered on your programme last night that none of this goes on that there has been no examples of this

" TATE: "In Satanism? I think Chris need to look again at the evidence .The evidence is very very clear. I can happily quote some if you'd like me to? O.K. Chris said that there is no such thing as sacrifice in Satanism? I think he needs to consider what he has actually published and what he has actually sold. I draw his attention to a magazine which he sold in his shop called Nox which is a Satanic magazine .I think you probably know the one I mean Chris? Nox 5 and it has an article and I quote entitled on Human Sacrifice written by a man called Anton Long who runs the Order of the nine Angles which begins traditional Satanists have and still do conduct human sacrifice. Now I know that you sell that and you know that you sell that- let's not be silly about it

BRAY: Chris Bray goes on to say that an article discussing the historical and other implications of Human Sacrifice is not evidence of Human Sacrifice having been committed and that subject was not regularly aired in any of the books he sells as Tate perfectly well knows because this is the exception which proves the rule..

TATE: "I would be interested in talking about it to Mr. Long.Mr Long did not want to talk to us either. Chris obviously has information about the nature of his operation that I don't have.

BRAY gets annoyed and tells Tate that he is perfectly aware that he sent Tate a statement of intent along with a long history of his shop and that he himself is not a satanis and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Order of the Nine Angles so he should stop insinuating it..

.TATE: (interjecting). I must say this you've had an awful long time to talk. You didn't want to talk to us at the time.

BRAY: retorts that he (Tate) very well knows that he made an offer through his solicitor to speak to the Cook Report off-camera and he must stop trying to blacken Mr Bray by being economical with the truth. Hammond steps in to let Tate talk.

TATE: "Let me start very briefly I think Chris has a very valid point in what he says that there is some form of organised campaign against Occultism and I must stress that the Cook Report had no part in that. I share Chris's view that it is unhealthy for Fundamentalist Christians or Fundamentalist whatever else to persecute someone whose ordinary religion is part of that religion

BRAY gets very angry and interrupts making it clear that Tate knew very well all about fundamentalist Christians because four of the six experts he used on the Cook Report for his Research were Christian fundamentalists! Hammond interjects and again lets Tate establish disinformation.

TATE: "You are now seeing the kind of difficulty we had in trying to talk to Chris Bray."

BRAY: now gets to talk saying that he invited himself on the Cook Report to set the record straight because he knew that they had been given corrupted and biased information by by Christian Fundamentalists whose purpose was to disenfranchise the whole of occultism, not save children from harm. When it became clear that the Cook Report were simply gunning for him regardless of the facts he felt that there was no point in helping them establish lies which could deletoriously affect the freedom of belief.

HAMMOND: says why not talk to the camera

BRAY: "because you saw the result it was a hatchet job

TATE: This is absolute nonsense it really is a distortion of the facts"

BRAY: interrupts and asks what TATE is alleging?

TATE: We wanted to talk to you specifically about the article and adverts in your publication which is the Lamp of Thoth. We specifically wanted to talk to him about the piece from the Process Church of the final Judgement The Rite of Transmutational Sorcery, we specifically wanted to talk to Chris about that and, let me finish, it includes the suggestion from the author that the person who uses this rite should use Henbane or Deadly Nightshade Psychotropic Drugs which are extraordinarily dangerous

BRAY: interrupts and says that these are not dangerous drugs

TATE: "That's not what you said in your gloss in the magazine Chris you said that they shouldn't use them because thay are dangerous

BRAY: interjects saying that Tate knows very well what is technically meant as dangerous if a drug is scheduled under the Dangerous Drugs Act.

TATE: " One day you say one thing the other another.

If interested observers want to make up their minds about the content and responsible editing of the Lamp of Thoth magazine they can obtain sample issues by clicking on this link

"HAMMOND: again interrupts Chris as he replies to Tates' provocation and continuing inferences that he is not telling the truth. Hammond takes Tate's side because 'All Tate wants to do is ask about your publications'.

.BRAY : ""Come on then Tim give me some information and I'll answer it.

TATE: " I'd like to ask you a very specific question why when you know the nature of the Process Church of the final Judgemant did you a) decide to print what you yourself called Psycopathic garbage and b)give a contact address for anyone who wanted to get in touch with this bunch of Psycopaths?

BRAY: asks why he's asking him about this as Cook Report could have got in touch with the contact address he gave. That's why he gave it! He asks Tate how he could trying to suggest that he is proselytising the Process Church when he put an editoral paragraph at the bottom of the article clearly lambasting them and criticising them?

HAMMOND: Hammond interrupts saying certain psychopaths may get hold of this etc

BRAY: says to get all into proportion that there has not been one ritual murder- no prosecution-overtalking again by Tate and Hammond

TATE: "A very carefully phrased answer there has been a ritual manslaughter put it that way"

BRAY: "Whats this?

.TATE: That's the Newall case which you saw featured in the programme last night

BRAY: interjects and says that he was approached by detectives working on that case before it went to court as an expert witness. After seeing the evidence including artifacts he said it was plain that the killing was NOT a ritual murder agreed to give evidence to the police to that effect.

TATE: Did they take you up on the offer?

BRAY says that thay certainly didn't because the police inspector leading the investigation had taken other advice and chose to go with that. However Tate now full well-knows that Chris Bray's view was upheld in the court of appeal where self-defence was a component - you don't get self-defence in a ritual murder. .. again overtalking by everyone)

TATE: " Blurb Blurb and never get down to talking straight facts. If we can get back to the point when you say that you wrote three letters to us we wrote umpteen to you .

..BRAY: "No you didn't you wrote one letter and I have it here".

TATE: "Thats not true I have a file" There is arguing again and Tate doesnt finish producing evidence of the phantom letters - (see similar performance at the BCC hearing at foot of article)

HAMMOND: Tim are you going to pursue this and hopefully talk to Chris again in the future?

TATE: I would love to .The one thing I would like to say very briefly is that if you have children round the world saying this goes on extremely bizarre phenomenon, extremely bizarre abuse of children of Two or Three you either have an international conspiracy of toddlers which is extremely unlikely or some rather more intelligent adult organisation doing it

."BRAY: says that the Satanic Ritual Abuse is a Myth. It does not exist at all except in the minds of Christian fundamentalist agitators and social workers on the make. He prophecies right at the end of the programme that he will return for a rematch with Tate in 5 years which is when he estimates this present bought of hysteria has culminated 'and make Tate eat his words':

Epilogue:Note 1: Professor La Fontaine's definitive report on Satanic Ritual Abuse which was, commissioned by the government after the Orkney child-lifts fiasco, and accepted by them in full, was finished almost five years to the month of this interview. It concluded that every case in the Cook Report was worked-up and did not constitute Satanic Ritual Abuse. That of the 84 cases since then in which children were said by social workers to have been satanically abused, none of the cases could qualify for that description. This definitive and extensive report found that there was no such thing as Satanic Ritual Abuse and that the idea had been promoted into Social Work by fundamentalist Christians for sectarian purposes. The report fully vindicated everything Chris Bray had said about the hyseria.

Note 2: The Broadcasting Complaints Commission hearing into the Cook Report in London revealed the urgency and importance which the CR team gave to winning it. Mr Bray turned up alone to defend himself. Ranged against him was Central TVs barrister, a producer, a researcher and Co Producer, Tim Tate, and , though it was unnecessary for him to attend, Cook himself. This overkill just illustrated the precarious position they were in. In fact there were so few places left at the table when the commission convened that some of the CR team were asked to leave the room and Cook volunteered! During the sometimes heated discusion of the facts the CR team were having a bad time of it, Eventually, grasping at straws Tate said that Bray was fully cognisant of the implication of an american occultist in satanic abuse allegations yet still published an article by him anyway. Bray responded "That is a LIE, I would have done no such thing!". Tate said that he had proof. Bray said, You can't have because it is a lie. One of the commission interjected that this was a serious statement. Mr Bray gave him a steely stare and said that it was a CRUCIAL statement and he wasn't leaving until it was retracted or the so-called evidence produced. The commission asked Tate to show them the evidence. Tate went red, and spent a few minutes scrambling in his briefcase but came up with nothing. Chris Bray said "You have no such evidence because it doesn't exist - you have LIED to incriminate me! The embarrassment of the commission and the rest of the CR team was obvious. In an attempt to clear the air the chairmain said that Tate could produce the evidence later before ajudication, at which point Mr Bray said that the supposed evidence never existed in the first place and that he was not about to allow any evidence from these people to be presented after the close of the hearing. At that the chairman closed the meeting with the Cook Report team hanging on to ingratiate themselves and restore their somewhat tatt ered image with the commission. What Tate failed to mention, and which Mr Bray discovered later, was that the allegations against the American occultist were unfounded and had already been withdrawn at the time of the BCC hearing!

Note 3: When that series of The Cook Report ended his disgusting The Devil's Work special was thoroughly discredited in the course of time with none of the cases he quoted as being real proving to be the case. As the heat of the hysteria which generated public interest for the Cook Reports 'special' waned, a further series was not forthcoming. For some years Cook wallowed in obscurity but in the autumn of 2007 Tim Tate went to see various commissioning editors and eventually flogged them the idea of having a composite programme consisting of the 'best' of Roger's Cook Report titled Roger Cook's Greatest Hits. This two hour binge of self-congratulatory Cookesqueness included those 'celebrated' cases Cook had filmed, such as the Elephant poachers and the Costa Crime gangs and the inevitable shots of pensioners attacking him with brollies - but what they DID NOT cover was the fatefull show that virtually demolished his reputation, The Satanic Ritual Abuse Myth was noticeable by it's absence. Not one mention of it! Tate apparently no longer thought it worthy of attention and so must have concluded that there really was a conspiracy by two year olds after all!

Note 4: The Cook Report needed a face to demonise on camera. As all they had was a Dracula Mask (see The Seige of the S.A. elsewhere on this website) they scoured the archives and found an interview which Chris Bray had given several years before to another programme. During an otherwise balanced and fair interview lasting about four minutes the interviewer threw in the inevitable question about sexuality along the lines of 'aren't most people in it for weird sex?' Mr Bray said honestly, that paganism is not about weird sex but that if a few people are attracted to witchcraft because of sex what's wrong with that PROVIDING IT DOES NOT HARM ANOTHER. The Cook Report unbelievably siezed upon this and dishonestly re-edited the audiotrack to fraudulently implicate Mr Bray in their imagined pan-global satanic conspiracy. In the voice-over on the cook report after 'doorstepping' Mr Bray Cook said But Bray is on public record as saying that he has no responsibility for people who buy his goods......' and then they showed the old interview with the criminally altered soundtrack which made Mr Bray say. SOME PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED BY WEIRD SEX.......(qualification edited out.....) WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? The evil and duplicit Cook Report team could not find any evidence to substantiate their prejudiced suspicions about Mr Bray so they simply framed him! They had taken out the all important qualification AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM ANOTHER, which actually proved that he DID care. So blatant was this dishonourable lie by the Cook Report Team that when Mr Bray pointed it out and asked the Broadcasting Complaints Commission to request a copy of the video to check it out, the Cook Report REFUSED point blank to send one! A tacit admission of guilt if ever there was one. Luckily Mr Bray already had a copy of the original soundtrack as proof and so another scum-sucking attempt by the Cook Report to viciously and unfairly attack Mr Bray had fallen flat on its face. Mr Bray's intuition had been correct right fr om the start. There was no way he could have spoken to these people or trusted them. These people came gunning for him right from the start. They wanted to destroy him from day one. To this day he believes that the awful allegations they made and the terrible crimes they unjustly linked him with in the eyes of the public were a direct cause of the firebombing of his bookstore.